Matt Cardona On Saving The NWA, Outworking Everyone & What Makes An Indie - Exclusive

In the vast, storied universe of professional wrestling, few take what many perceive as a step back and turn it into a career-changing opportunity the way Matt Cardona has. For many, he's Zack Ryder of WWE fame, but for those with their fingers on the pulse of the thriving independent wrestling scene, he stands as a testament to tenacity, self-belief, and relentless hard work.

As Zack Ryder, he not only won WWE titles but also pioneered a fresh approach to wrestler self-promotion with his YouTube series. He highlighted himself as the "Internet Champion" in a time before anyone used the platform for their self-promotion within wrestling, revolutionizing the approach. With his time at WWE over (for now), he has taken the wrestling world by storm in promotions like All Elite Wrestling, Impact Wrestling, Game Changer Wrestling, and the National Wrestling Alliance. Every step so far has been a masterclass in reinvention, from his nostalgic nods to WWE to the unique videos he posts every single week, and he continues to make each appearance feel fresh and captivating.

Beyond the ring, Cardona's passion for action figures adds another dimension to his legacy. A fervent collector and connoisseur, he is synonymous with the wrestling action figure community, even co-hosting a podcast dedicated to it. His affection for these miniaturized wrestlers and non-wrestling figures not only showcases his profound love for the industry but also draws attention to a niche hobby, propelling it into the mainstream.

In this interview, Cardona talks NWA 75, his open challenge, and his mission to save the NWA. But Cardona's tale isn't just about titles and championships; it's fundamentally about a wrestler's undying passion for the sport and an unyielding drive to outwork everyone, ensuring the top name in indie wrestling remains "Matt Cardona."

Read Wrestling Inc's interview with NWA's Kamille, who also talks about NWA 75.

Jack Farmer: Matt, thanks so much for joining me. What's the best thing that's happened to you so far today?

Matt Cardona: I went to the gym, about to go lay in the pool. I'll go on Whatnot later. Whatnot is where we auction off, whether it be wrestling figures, ring gear, just extra ways to make money, always hustling, always making that money, baby.

Yeah, you got to stay busy. Are you a first-thing-in-the-morning gym guy?

Well, breakfast first, then the gym, but this morning I had to do a bunch of these interviews. That kind of threw me off. I got to go tan after this. I leave tomorrow. My Thursday is usually my haircut day, my tan day, get-ready-for-the-weekend day.

You mentioned you're a busy guy. I got to confess something here — you make it very hard for an interviewer like me, because I like to do my research, and so I'm like, "Let me pull up some interviews with Matt Cardona first so I don't repeat so many questions." You've done a million of these things. I was like, "This is ridiculous."

Oh, god, every week I'm doing it. The thing is I'm always doing new things. There's always more questions to ask ... I have too much s*** to plug. Whatever comes up, comes up. I mean, literally, we could spend the next 20 minutes, and I can name everything I'm involved in and we'd still run out of time.

The real reason we're here, the big thing that we're setting this up for is NWA 75. It's the biggest NWA show ever, at least as far as numbers on the end of it goes. It's going to be a massive show, and again, you put me in a tough spot. I try to do some research. I want to look at who your opponent is going to be, but, right now, I just see a big TBA sitting in front of that name spot there. You issued an open challenge. At any point, do you know who you're facing? Has anyone poked their head out, sent you an email, any feelers sent out?

No.

What's going on?

I mean, full disclosure, I was the NWA Champion last year. I came to the NWA to save the NWA. I saw the potential in the NWA. Of course, we all know the history and the legacy of the NWA, but it needed a kick in the ass, and I was that kick in the ass. I won the championship. I beat Trevor Murdoch. I brought that title all over the world. Whether you liked me or not or you watched NWA or not, everybody who followed wrestling knew that I was the NWA World's Heavyweight Champion. I was very proud of that. I'm still very proud of that.

Unfortunately, I got injured. I tore my bicep. I had to relinquish the title, and ever since then, my run in the NWA hasn't quite been what I wanted it to be. I haven't been on NWA TV since February, so I figure, what better way to come back? Like you said, the biggest show to date, and it honestly doesn't matter who my opponent is, it's going to be the biggest match of their career, the biggest opportunity of their life, but for me, honestly, it's just going to be another payday, you know what I'm saying?

Well, it's definitely good about the payday, but I've got to be honest with you, Matt. I'm not a pro wrestler. I'm not a strategist, but I look at this, and I'm a little worried for you here. You were on a bit of a losing skid during your last run through NWA at the end there. In fact, you went through a table by your friend, Mike Knox, as a-

Former. Former friend.

Historically, these open challenges on these big shows, it typically doesn't bode well for the guy that issued the challenge. Are you a little nervous about where this might lead?

It's funny you say that, because last year I raced back, literally, raced back from injury to be ready for NWA 74. I had an open challenge and I lost because I took my opponent too lightly, but the hashtag, the nickname, Alwayz Ready — I am a man that's always ready, whether it be in my life or career. I'm always ready for any opportunity. I'm always ready for any opponent, and I'm not going to take it lightly like I did last year. No way.

By the way, is it Night One or Night Two?

Night One. I don't know what's going to happen Night Two. I'm getting paid. I don't know if I'm going to be at the show Night Two. I'll tell you, my travel says I'll be there both days, but the open challenge is for Night One.

What does saving the NWA look like for you?

Well, now, listen, Tyrus, he beat me, right? You can say what you want about Tyrus. He takes that title. He is the perfect spokesman for the NWA. He brings that title on television, Fox News. I don't care what your politics are. He is bringing that title on television. This is a big deal. People who don't even know what the NWA is knows that Tyrus is the NWA World's Heavyweight Champion, so that's great. Tyrus, I don't think he's going to accept my open challenge. I don't think this is going to be a NWA title match, but the goal is to be a two-time champion. I never lost that title. I had to relinquish it.

Honestly, I'm kind of a little pissed off ...  because I missed less than three months. I missed less than three months as the champion. I could have held onto it. I could have done promos, I could have done media appearances, I could have done whatever, but I respect Billy's decision. His decision was final, and that's it. If I get an opportunity, I feel like, every opportunity I've had since, there's always been some sort of collusion. There was a triple threat match with Tyrus and Trevor. It wasn't one-on-one or, with Tyrus, even Bully Ray got involved. I'm not going to sit here and b**** and moan and complain and say it wasn't fair, but I haven't gotten a fair one-on-one rematch for my title.

You said it was only three months. Are you a fan of the idea of an interim champion and then the returning champion coming back for the rematch, or not a fan?

I am not. I'm not a fan of that. I think it just muddies the waters. It's too confusing. Listen, I wasn't going to be out for nine months, I was going to be out for three, so even more reason to just keep it on me. Just keep it on me, come on. But it is what it is, water under the bridge. That was a year ago, and the goal is now to become a two-time champion.

You mentioned it was Billy Corgan's decision at the end of the day. What's it like working with someone who is not only a promoter, but a rock star? How involved is he with what you're doing, things like this open challenge, but also, how does he compare to former bosses like, obviously, a Vince McMahon?

I've been saying this since I got to NWA. I love the freedom there. For instance, if it's a "NWA Powerrr" taping and I have to speak at the podium, it just says, "Matt Cardona, podium, four minutes." There's no outline, there's no script, and that's not just for me. I don't get special treatment. That's for everybody, and I feel that's what pro wrestling should be, so I love working in that kind of environment.

I know you've been asked questions about, obviously, your time with WWE and it coming to an end ... You had a dream job, and it was gone, and you found a way. At least outside looking in, I think it was the best thing that could have happened to you in a lot of ways ... It's hard times out there for a lot of people. Any advice or thought processes on taking what looks like a step back and turning it into a step forward?

It sounds like it's super simple, and it is super simple. Just do the g**damn work. Outwork everybody. If you want something done, do it yourself. In WWE, listen, I love my time there. It set me up for this epic indie run. It set me up for life, and I learned so much there, but in WWE, especially for a guy in my position there, there were only so many things I could control, so I controlled those things to the best of my abilities. Now, being on the indies, being The Agent, I can control literally everything.

My brain doesn't stop, and I'm trying to make everything a success. Not everything's going to be a success. There's so many things that I have failed at, but I have the opportunity, and the opportunities are endless. I can literally do whatever I want, whenever I want. I'm my own boss. I haven't signed contracts with any other wrestling company. I have no reason to. I don't care how you define success. Whether it's by accolades, money, happiness, I've been the most successful I've ever been in my life since leaving WWE. That's not a shot at WWE. That's a pat on the back to myself for working my goddamn f***ing ass off because I will not stop. I just won't.

There's so many weekends where I'm like, "I'll just do one show this weekend." Last week I did four, because, I say this in character, but this is true, I love the buzz, the money, and the gold. I want to be the top guy in the indies. I'm on the g**damn cover of Pro Wrestling Illustrated right now. There hasn't been an independent wrestler on the cover of Pro Wrestling Illustrated since the territory days. I'm proud of something like that. I'm proud that, right now, I have the most buzz I've ever had in my career, and that's because I'm working my ass off. I see these guys or girls who were released with me or after me not doing jack s***, and I have no sympathy towards that. Go work your ass off. Go get booked. Go reinvent yourself. I did it, so why can't you?

I think you are the biggest name in indie wrestling.

There's no doubt I am, and that's not me being ... Maybe I have a bit of an ego, but that's just fact, and that's because I'm getting myself out there every single weekend. I do the indies that have all the buzz. I do the indies where I go do the show. It's like the day never existed in my life because I won't get one tweet about it, but I do those shows. I go overseas. I just got back from Japan. I'm going to Australia. I'm going to England. I'm going everywhere, because I'm not on TV, I'm not on "Raw" or "SmackDown," any of those AEW shows. I need to push myself, and I have no problem doing that.

Why do you think more people aren't copying you?

Laziness.

Because I look at you and I'm like, "this looks like a blueprint for success," and if I was wrestling, I feel like I would just copy you.

I created the blueprint. Over a decade ago, I created the blueprint of how to get over on social media and now, I'm doing it again, how to get over it without a major wrestling company. I mean, it's no secret. I literally put out podcasts with my tips and tricks. People, they say they want it, but they don't want it. They don't want to put in all that work. They don't want to eat clean. They don't want to work out hard. They don't want to miss weekends. They don't want to miss celebrations or parties or birthdays or weddings. That's what this business is.

You alluded to the PWI cover, and that's got to be such a proud moment for you, not just because it's a big thing in pro wrestling, but you being 100% self-made in that. I mean no disrespect to anyone else who's on there, but when you have the power of a big company behind you, it's one thing, but you've done that completely on your own. It's something you should be very proud about there, just to throw that out there, because I feel like if I say, "You're the biggest name in indie wrestling," I don't want people to think I'm a suck-up. I'm saying there's numbers behind what I'm saying, and a little bit of suck-up, but for the most part, there's numbers.

Also, listen, I've said this before and I'll say it again. I'm not here. This isn't my Honky Tonk Man run on the indies, right? I'm not here to pass the torch to the next generation. I got a lot left in the tank. I'm here to light a new torch and carry it for myself. However, if I can help somebody along the way, whether it be in the ring or with getting over or with selling merch, I'm glad to give back, but at the end of the day, it's about me. I'm my number one focus, and that's why I'm so driven, because everything is up to me. I'm not relying on anybody else. If something doesn't take off or something doesn't succeed, I'm man enough and mature enough to look in the mirror, blame myself, figure out what I can do to adjust that, and move on.

You don't need to give me numbers or anything like that, but there's a lot of people who want to be wrestlers watching this and there are people who are just trying to get side hustles and things like that. When you were first figuring out your rates, how did you go about figuring out what the right rate is, and how did you feel about when it was time to raise it and things like that? Again, you don't need to give me numbers, but just how did you figure out what was right?

I asked around what the going rate was at the time. My rate has been the same since I left WWE, but I feel like I should raise it because my stock is through the roof now. There's certain things I have raised, like my merchandise costs or like my meet-and-greet cost. That I have raised, pretty much almost doubled, because of supply and demand. When the people stop lining up to meet me, that's when I'll lower my prices. When they stop buying all my merch, that's when I'll lower the prices. Until then, I'm going to keep jacking it up until they stop coming.

Of course, you work in a lot of places and you're doing a lot of stuff, but you recently went on Twitter and you said that GCW wasn't listening to your creative pitches. I got to ask. If they're not listening, I'm all ears, Matt. What are some of these creative pitches you had for them?

No. I mean, GCW, without GCW, and this is no bulls***, without GCW, I don't even know if I'd be sitting here talking to you right now. It was just fate, right place, right time. I knew it would create some buzz to go to GCW. I knew people would want to see Zach Ryder get carved up by Nick Gage. It was fresh off the "Dark Side of the Ring" episode. I knew there would be buzz, but I could not anticipate the amount of buzz there was. It changed my career, changed my life. The snowball effect, making me the number one guy on the indies, certainly switching me from "babyface" to heel, which, I'm the same guy, but the fans turned on me because I beat some criminal. They should be cheering me. People don't quite understand that, but I love GCW.

Right, you people turned on me.

Yeah. People ask me all the time, like, "Is GCW the number one independent promotion?" Yes, but it's weird, I don't really consider them an independent, but truly they are independent, right? Nobody's backing them. Nobody's funding them, but they're running more shows than anybody. I think they're running more than AEW. They're running every weekend all over the world.

Now, listen, GCW is not selling out Wembley Stadium, okay? I'm not comparing GCW to AEW in that regard, but they're running not just New Jersey. Every single weekend, it's somewhere new, at least two shows, all these different countries. GCW, man, if you want independence and you don't want to work for GCW, I don't know what you're doing.

You mentioned they're the biggest independent company. This is something I'm always curious about. To you, what makes a company indie versus not indie? Is it being on network television? Is it how many people are watching? Is Impact an indie? Is NWA an indie? Where's that line drawn?

I think, if you're getting a direct deposit, you're not an indie. You know what I'm saying?

That's a good answer.

If they have your bank info, if they give you a direct deposit check, then you're not an indie. So Impact, not an indie. NWA, not an indie. WWE, obviously, not an indie. AEW, not an indie, duh. If they have your bank info, not an indie. That's the most simple way to explain it in my opinion.

Now, you're a free spirit right now. You're working all over the place. Obviously, money is a factor, but if someone said, "Hey, Matt Cardona, I want to lock you down. I want you to be only with us," what does that contract have to look like besides, again, obviously a big-enough paycheck, but beyond that?

It would take a lot of convincing. Listen, I'm a businessman. I would have a conversation with anybody who call me, but it would take the two C's: cash and creative. Of course, there's no promises with creative, but the intention would have to be there. I don't want to just be a guy on a roster. Been there, done that, it's great, and I get it if you're fine with that. If you have a family, you want that check coming in. You want the security. I get it. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but I don't need that. Been there, done that. My dream wasn't just to be a pro wrestler. My dream was to be a f***ing wrestling superstar. Right now, I'm doing it on my own, but if AEW called, if Tony Khan called me right now and said, "Hey, we want you for All In in Wembley," if it made sense, of course, I would go. If WWE called and said, "Hey, we want to bring you back," blah blah blah, if it made sense, of course, I would go. But until then, I don't need to go.

I think that's what's so rewarding about this run is that, ever since I got released, it wasn't like, "Oh, what can I do to get back to WWE," or, "What can I do to go to AEW?" I don't give a s***. I'm trying to make the most money, have the most fun, and I'm succeeding doing that. I'd argue that my buzz has never been higher. I'll tell you right now, I've never made more money and I've never been happier, so I think I'm doing a pretty good job.

I do want to ask about the figures. Obviously, this is something you've become known for as well. I said you're the number one indie guy, but I have a feeling, do you keep track of other figure collectors, and who's the number one figure guy? Is it you, or who's your rival? Is there anyone you're trying to catch? Are you like, "Ah, this guy's got more than me," or, "Oh, that's the piece I need?"

It's funny. I have a lot of wrestling figures, non-wrestling figures. I have a lot of high-end stuff. I have a lot of stuff that's worth nothing. I don't think anybody could have the best collection. I think everybody's collection is special in its own way. Everyone can make their own rules, collect what they want, whether they're a completist and get every single figure in a particular line or just who they like. Yeah, I don't think anyone can have the best collection. I'm not trying to compete with anyone in that regard. If you get something and you like it, it makes you happy and you have it on display or you even have it in a Ziploc, in some tote, in your garage, whatever makes you happy, whatever you want to collect, do it. I don't judge anybody's collection. I think they're all equal.

What you're saying is you're better than all of them and you're trying to be diplomatic. I got it. It's all good.

Well, I do call myself the Michael Jordan of wrestling figure collecting.

Everyone else is just chasing number two.

Well, listen, you said it, not me.

If you're someone who has heard about this NWA thing and you're not really sure if you're ready to bite yet, why is NWA 75 the time and what can we expect from you?

I think NWA is a great place because there's so many hungry wrestlers, people who are looking for that first bit of exposure, people who are looking for that second or third run. I think it's just a whole mixture of talent, and they all want the NWA to succeed. They all want to succeed themselves. Everyone's hungry. I think the two-night event, NWA 75, it's going to be incredible. Of course, I'm on the card, so who's going to be my opponent? We'll find out. Tyrus, defending the World's Heavyweight Championship against EC3, so that's a match I'm looking forward to. I want to see who the winner is. I'll be taking notes because I want to rematch. Yeah, NWA, it's a great place to be, and I think the fans, if they haven't already, should give it a chance at NWA 75.

NWA 75, August 26 and 27. It's a huge anniversary number.

It's a big one.

Thank you so much, Matt Cardona, for the time.

Thank you, man. I appreciate it.